March 9, 2007

No Logic Pro 8

Rumours about new Apple products are an inexact science, or cultish obsession, depending on your point of view. For over a year now I’ve been tracking rumours about Apple’s new version of the Logic digital audio programme. Apple bought the maker of Logic, eMagic, some years back and whilst Logic 7 was an important release, […]

Well, the rumours are hotting up now and they indicate not just a new release, but perhaps a fundamentally new programme. There are appear to be links to the new interface options from Apogee, the growing liklehood of a major Mac Pro upgrade and the possibility of new, touch-screen monitors. Check out the following discussions,

Will There Be No Logic Pro 8?
Is Apple overhauling Logic to be a ProTools killer?

Whilst I’m not in love with either the Logic name, or many of the aspects of the interface, I am enmeshed to some extent with it. I’m not fond of the idea of having to pay too big an upgrade premium to a new product (or heaven forbid full retail) and I have invested quite in bit in coming to grips with the current layout of the programme.

But there are some things that really bug me, issues where Logic trails way behind the market leaders. Scoring for video is far less effective in Logic than in Digital Performer. Time stretching loops in Logic is nowhere near as intuitive as it is in Ableton Live. Logic’s pitch and timing correction is poor and dated by comparision to Melodyne. Logic’s drum engine is one-dimensional compared with Reason Drums. Logic’s own score editing is weak and slow when compared to Sibelius (now owned by the makers of Pro Tools).

Whatever the new version of Logic is called, my hope is that it will be closer to the cutting edge across this range of applications and will demonstate that Apple are still comitted to Pro Audio.

[tags] Apple, Logic, DAW [/tags]

Tagged Daily Life, Music Technology

jay upp 17 years ago

fern,
the next version is sure to kill. pro 7 is a magical program, after a pro-tool fanatic myself, i have recently dipped into the logic world and have found it quirky in a sense but much easier to get what you want, almost all virtually (if i wanted to). i still think its the benchmark, i can’t eve think about an 8 version…….!!!!!!!!!!!!

rakmanenuff 17 years ago

yeah. even though we’re getting a lot of different features for the price, they aren’t necessarily on top in the different departments.
the exs sampler is a very convenient feature, but it doesn’t repond properly to velocity, nor does it sound anywhere near as good as an akai s-5000 for instance. the quantization presets are crap compared to the cubase ones, it’s like they were put together by a mathematician, not a music guy. and it’s complicated to save your own grooves, as you have to keep the actual midi files in your autoload arrangement to access your personalized grooves in any new song.
they’ve added some cool things since version 4, like freeze and a few decent instruments, but i’m surprised they still haven’t fixed the custom groove thing and made it more user-friendly. i guess it’s because i’ve been away from the music for a while and lost my timing a bit, that i need to quantize my drum programming at all…

Fernando Gros 17 years ago

Jay,

As much as I complain about Logic’s labrynthine nature (like most users do), I am rather fond of the workflow. Crack the programme and it is easy to be very, very productive.

It is interesting though to hear a pro tools user like yourself commenting on the differences. There’s a lot of attention on the next version of Logic being a “Pro-Tools Killer” and certainly on forums and the like, the “pros use protools” argument against Logic gets it’s run.

But my concern is that a lot of the most innovative stuff is not all Pro Tools. I’ve like to see Logic also beating some of the features from Live and Melodyne as well – please!

rakmanenuff,
I love the idea of the custom groove thing, but I’ve struggled to really make it work for me. What I wish is to be able to do a better job of making midi horn parts sit better with loop based grooves, especially things I’ve played in on guitar.

Vincent Agniello 17 years ago

I have been a devoted Logic user for the last 7 years. Back when it was Emagic Logic the program never crashed at all and everyone complained about how difficult it was but probably because it was my first DAW I never had a single problem with it.

When Apple purchased Logic and brought out the new features my Logic using experience became quite bumpy. I have experienced many crippling bugs that have not been fixed by Apple for years! For example, stereo tracks suddenly making themselves mono. I have many older songs, songs created in version 6 or even 5, back when I used to bounce a lot, which have all been plagued with this bug. Or midi files changing key. Or just sudden crashes.

My big hope is that Logic 8 will be buggless for the most part. These bugs that Logic users have had to live with are totally and utterly unacceptable, and in my opinion it has been extremely unprofessional, and even negligent, of Apple to let them go unfixed.

Take for another example the “Save as project” feature… I recently openned another old song which had been backed up in this way and found that one of the instruments had not been saved, so the instrument played without the samples associated, in a blank sine wave. On top of that, Logic had shifted the key of this midi file.

I need both my hands to count the number of songs that have been experienced these bad bugs, on three different computers over the past two years. I wish with all my heart that Apple would stop worrying about adding new bells and whistles and just tighten the way the program works so that it is ultra-reliable, the way it used to be when it was owned by Emagic.

Vincent, thanks for your comment. It is very telling that in a number of articles I’ve read over the past year, when polled, Logic users want a bugless programme far more than they want new features. Certainly, I’m [em]very[/em] frustrated that Logic never got to a stable 7.5 version, given how long it has been out.

As keen as I am to get my hands on Logic 8 (or whatever it will be called), truth is I will probably wait till 8.1 is out, before jumping.

K2K Koos 17 years ago

I agree there,

First and foremost, make the program bugfree
Second: Update and streamline the interface and make it OSX Aqua worthy
Third: Add native support and editors for the latest hardware (synths, processors, mixers, interfaces)
Fourth: Add a build in midi dump record/load function, so we can load new patches into your synths at the start of a song or project, out of a central ‘archive’, that go beyond the GM and XG standard.
Now I have to use third party stuff.
Fifth: Overhaul the audio editing part, pitch, time stretch etc etc..
Thank you Apple , musicians will remain your friends, create content on Logic, sell it on iTunes, played on iPods 🙂 You have a winner!

Yep – agreeing with all of those. Your fourth point is one I had not thought about becuase of my setup, but it makes sense. One of the rumours I’ve read a few tiems is that a revamp of the environment is one the cards. That may include what you ask for and for me I hope it improves the handling of setting for external hardware like interfaces and controllers.

PT Killer 17 years ago

“the exs sampler is a very convenient feature, but it doesn‚Äôt repond properly to velocity, nor does it sound anywhere near as good as an akai s-5000 for instance.”

This comment is just ignorant. I guarantee, the exs sample responds to velocity – any way you want it to. As far as the s-5000, you must be refering to the convertors that akai used. Hate to break it to you but the EXS24 is a software sampler and sounds as good as any other audio coming out of Logic. If you don’t believe import one of the samples into the arrange window and compare it to the sample coming out of the EXS24.

“the quantization presets are crap compared to the cubase ones”

Why don’t you import the cubase ones then? Or the ones from the MPC-2000?

“It‚Äôs complicated to save your own grooves, as you have to keep the actual midi files in your autoload arrangement to access your personalized grooves in any new song”

No it isn’t and no you don’t. Save them in your autoload as midi maps and then erase the midi files….

Lynch 17 years ago

Im from Trinidad so this is a comment of international status…
I just walked out the studio where this guy owns a new G5 lots of hard drive space dual core, the works xxxxcessive ram, the works and i didn`t even stay an hour and Logic CRASHED twice. now it was bad enough since i considered Macs to be the most stable platform for music production and that they are, but Twice in one hour, come on. Who in this case is getting the bad name though is the same company since logic is now owned by Apple. So yes, Bug free but im gonna still buy a Mac laptop by this OCtober (hope the next OS is out by then) and i still WANT LOGIC so fixing the problems would be a great Plus…as well as more Killer synths…Logic remains user friendly in my book why change a good thing…unless your making it BETTER

EvertJan 17 years ago

“I just walked out the studio where this guy owns a new G5 lots of hard drive space dual core, the works xxxxcessive ram, the works and i didn`t even stay an hour and Logic CRASHED twice”

I’m sorry but its hard to believe its just Logic (pro?) causing this,
I have the same setup on two computers.
One crashes a lot and the other one doesnt. The difference is in the plugs…
Are you sure this studio is using all legal and/or fitting 3rd party plugs?
Please ask him the next time he curses at Logic. Please let me know 😉

Florian Schommertz 17 years ago

I like Logic a lot and use it since 1996 on Atari.
I found this HP because I again, was hoping to find an information about bugfreeing Updates – and so on.

I recently wanted to buy Melodyne as a Plug In – but another crash series was on its way …

Hope K2K Koos words will be heard on 8.bugfree
(even though – I use the 6.4.3 Version, because I hate the zoom tools of the 7.0 Version – as well as the crashes 🙁

(Funny_Bug: I have to close MOVs before closing any other window after I edited something in them – this happens only with the Focusrite Saffire ….)

Virus C 16 years ago

Please help, Logic 7 in the arrange window let me select Virus Channels 1 > 16 (of my External synth) and record anything into the arrange… Hit record -play midi keyboard- hear virus selected sound – see recorded data on virus channel… I could then bounce to internal audio…

PAID FOR LOGIC 8, installed it, now everything works except the VIRUS external synth…..

I can see midi data, but hear nmo sounds from the virus, or see any level on my Ozonic internal mixer

PLEASE HELP I WANT TO CRY

Fernando Gros 16 years ago

Hey,

Sorry to hear about the issues. I Don’t have Virus, but faced a similar problem when first trying to get Kontakt working with Logic 8. It sounds like Virus is not seeing the Midi data from Logic.

In the Inspector window for the Logic Track, look for the pulldown menu “MIDI Channel” In Logic 8 it defaults to “all.” See what channel Virus is looking for it on and set logic to that. An alternative is to try leaving logic on the default “all” setting and trying Virus on “Omni.” Hope that helps.

SJCONGO 16 years ago

Hehe, it seems to me that you all have to read the manual first 😛
Get a good apple and after buy Logic , make your settings and you are ready !!!

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