Comments on: With A Wink And A Nod… http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015 Sound, Image, Faith and Culture Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:02:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Fernando Gros http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-110470 Fernando Gros Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:29:12 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-110470 Duncan - it does make sense to discuss it and in your context it is probably very worthwhile. I guess part of the challenge is not just to talk about it, but to go somewhere with it. For me, I'm in a place where the tension of devoting a lot of "headspace" to issues that have no practical, everyday purchase, is becoming untenable. Put simply, the next dinner party I go to, someone may well talk about Richard Dawkins, but 100 to 1 they won't talk about Mark Driscoll or the emerging church. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is over a year since I had a "real world" conversation with anyone where Mark's name came up! Duncan — it does make sense to discuss it and in your context it is probably very worthwhile. I guess part of the challenge is not just to talk about it, but to go somewhere with it. For me, I’m in a place where the tension of devoting a lot of “headspace” to issues that have no practical, everyday purchase, is becoming untenable.

Put simply, the next dinner party I go to, someone may well talk about Richard Dawkins, but 100 to 1 they won’t talk about Mark Driscoll or the emerging church.

In fact, I’m pretty sure it is over a year since I had a “real world” conversation with anyone where Mark’s name came up!

]]> By: Fernando Gros http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-110469 Fernando Gros Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:25:36 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-110469 Andrew, I can see exactly what you are saying. In fact, your comment reminded me of what I used to call "the crush." What I saw as a young (naive) minister was ordinary Christians in churches trying to "get on with it," sometimes in innovative and what we would now call missional ways and higher-ups in the denoms all too interested in abstract debates and namecalling. I recall talking to one well known fellow about a church I was involved with and he just talked in total abstraction, referencing the fights of the day. I know he was trying to "describe" what I was doing and where that church was located, but it just seemed so crushing. In fact, the downward crush came to be something of a metaphor for what was wrong with these debates. Andrew, I can see exactly what you are saying. In fact, your comment reminded me of what I used to call “the crush.” What I saw as a young (naive) minister was ordinary Christians in churches trying to “get on with it,” sometimes in innovative and what we would now call missional ways and higher-ups in the denoms all too interested in abstract debates and namecalling. I recall talking to one well known fellow about a church I was involved with and he just talked in total abstraction, referencing the fights of the day. I know he was trying to “describe” what I was doing and where that church was located, but it just seemed so crushing. In fact, the downward crush came to be something of a metaphor for what was wrong with these debates.

]]> By: Andrew Hamilton http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-110450 Andrew Hamilton Wed, 03 Oct 2007 00:20:28 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-110450 Yes - I am tired too. I feel in the exploration of what it means to be a missionary like I got drawn into a fight I didn't want to have. I tend to go hard for a cause and don't mind a bit of a fight so I got stuck in for a while... But some days I just want to walk away and have a good long shower. It all gets a bit tiring... and maybe even silly. Yes — I am tired too.

I feel in the exploration of what it means to be a missionary like I got drawn into a fight I didn’t want to have. I tend to go hard for a cause and don’t mind a bit of a fight so I got stuck in for a while…

But some days I just want to walk away and have a good long shower.

It all gets a bit tiring… and maybe even silly.

]]> By: Duncan McFadzean http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-110277 Duncan McFadzean Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:52:51 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-110277 Fernando, I agree. In my context, as someone involved with a lot of students, it seemed to make a bit of sense to discuss it. Plus I find value and nonsense in both of them, as I'm sure they would in me. I guess it might even be our comfort zone, that to discuss what someone else said is a little bit more of the day I don't have to live it........thanks for the reference. Fernando, I agree. In my context, as someone involved with a lot of students, it seemed to make a bit of sense to discuss it. Plus I find value and nonsense in both of them, as I’m sure they would in me. I guess it might even be our comfort zone, that to discuss what someone else said is a little bit more of the day I don’t have to live it.….…thanks for the reference.

]]> By: Fernando Gros http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-109837 Fernando Gros Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:40:52 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-109837 Apollos, Paul, et al. - nice way to frame it. Yes, there is an issue here of choosing sides in a jejune way. Duncan's post was a good read, but I felt dumped back in the wash of (famous) names. What's dawning on me (again?) is that these names are *very* tangental to the everyday context I find myself in. It's not really about the names for me, more about the abstraction of the debate. Apollos, Paul, et al. — nice way to frame it. Yes, there is an issue here of choosing sides in a jejune way. Duncan’s post was a good read, but I felt dumped back in the wash of (famous) names. What’s dawning on me (again?) is that these names are *very* tangental to the everyday context I find myself in. It’s not really about the names for me, more about the abstraction of the debate.

]]> By: Fernando Gros http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-109836 Fernando Gros Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:36:51 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-109836 Bringing Yoder's idea of coercive power into this issue seems like the right move. I wonder if maybe we should also be asking about mimeticr rivalry, what tempts us to join the fray. For me this is all hard discipleship stuff, because I was trained for ministry in a power-oriented context. Bringing Yoder’s idea of coercive power into this issue seems like the right move. I wonder if maybe we should also be asking about mimeticr rivalry, what tempts us to join the fray.

For me this is all hard discipleship stuff, because I was trained for ministry in a power-oriented context.

]]> By: Paul http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-109658 Paul Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:25:23 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-109658 yep, personally i'm for Apollos, oops sorry that's so first century. By far the most balanced and in my opinion worthwhile post on the subject is this one by Duncan http://whatsyourpointcaller.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/round-3-the-podcast-and-the-book/ if anyone is still interested in listening, reflecting and open honest engagement/challenge anymore?? wink wink nod nod ;) yep, personally i’m for Apollos, oops sorry that’s so first century. By far the most balanced and in my opinion worthwhile post on the subject is this one by Duncan http://whatsyourpointcaller.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/round-3-the-podcast-and-the-book/ if anyone is still interested in listening, reflecting and open honest engagement/challenge anymore?? wink wink nod nod ;)

]]> By: c. wess daniels http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-109631 c. wess daniels Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:27:44 +0000 http://fernandogros.com/?p=1015#comment-109631 I'm with your fernando. I don't think we need any more provoking personally. I don't think I've ever posted on Driscoll, and trust me I've got lots of opinions about the guy. But I'd rather take the offensive and keep doing what I'm doing, and not sling mud, even if it's full of winks. There's too much else to do to worry about what some "Reformed Radical" is waxing on about. Actually, this just made me think of the reading I've been doing on Yoder. For Yoder any grasp at power is coercive, if we think of control as a way that we can get our point across we are no longer in line with Jesus' total renunciation of violence. I like all these guys who are doing it, some of them I consider friends (in the blogging sense) but I do think this is a grasp at power and control. It doesn't appear to be turning the other cheek or praying for one's enemies. I’m with your fernando. I don’t think we need any more provoking personally. I don’t think I’ve ever posted on Driscoll, and trust me I’ve got lots of opinions about the guy. But I’d rather take the offensive and keep doing what I’m doing, and not sling mud, even if it’s full of winks. There’s too much else to do to worry about what some “Reformed Radical” is waxing on about.

Actually, this just made me think of the reading I’ve been doing on Yoder. For Yoder any grasp at power is coercive, if we think of control as a way that we can get our point across we are no longer in line with Jesus’ total renunciation of violence. I like all these guys who are doing it, some of them I consider friends (in the blogging sense) but I do think this is a grasp at power and control. It doesn’t appear to be turning the other cheek or praying for one’s enemies.

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